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what do you see in him again?
We went to see New Moon this afternoon. Lord help me.

It was cheese-tastic. You can visit thefreak to read the blow by hilarious blow, but suffice it to say, there was much laughter, we were loudly shushed by some Twi-hards, and when wolf boy took his shirt off, I think 100 women ovulated all at once.

But there was something else.. something kind of screwy happening. I couldn't quite put my finger on it while I was in the theater, but once I got out, it hit me.

According to the National Domestic Violence hotline, these are some signs that you may be in an emotionally or physically abusive relationship.

Does your partner:
* Look at you or act in ways that scare you?
Check.

* Control what you do, who you see or talk to or where you go?
"Stay away from the werewolves. I love you."

* Make all of the decisions?
Check.

* Act like the abuse is no big deal, it’s your fault, or even deny doing it?
"If I wasn't so attracted to you, I wouldn't have to break up with you."

* Threaten to commit suicide?
"I just can't live without you. In fact, I'll run to Italy and try suicide by vampire if anything happens to you."

* Threaten to kill you?
On their first date.

These are some more signs of an abusive relationship.
Has your partner...
* Tried to isolate you from family or friends.
Bella doesn't have time for anyone else!

* Damaged property when angry (thrown objects, punched walls, kicked doors, etc.).
Check.

* Pushed, slapped, bitten, kicked or choked you.
Does tossing her through a glass table count?

* Abandoned you in a dangerous or unfamiliar place.
"We're breaking up. And I'm leaving you in the forest."

* Scared you by driving recklessly.
Check.

* Forced you to leave your home.
She had to run away with him to flee from the other vampires in the first movie, and she had to drop everything and run to Italy in the second.

* Prevented you from calling police or seeking medical attention.
Check. Even in the hospital, nothing is a big deal.

* Views women as objects and believes in rigid gender roles.
Well, they are Mormon... (I know, I know, cheap shot.)

* Accuses you of cheating or is often jealous of your outside relationships.
Check, wolf-boy.

Now I'm pissed. According to the NDVH, "If you answered ‘yes’ to even one of these questions, you may be in an abusive relationship." This list is fifteen.

In addition, Bella is quite literally a blank slate, an empty vessel. This created much mirth from our group-- "I can't read her thoughts." "That's because there AREN'T ANY!" "Heeheeheeheeheehee." "Shhhhhh!" But Bella seems to have no purpose, other than to be loved by someone, anyone. When she isn't around either Edward or Jacob, she mopes around and does... nothing. I was actually excited when she actually took initiative and yelled back at the werewolves.

Then I was pissed again, since the werewolves apparently also go for abusive relationships. The main wolf-dude lives with his girlfriend, who he fucking mauled once, because she provoked him into turning into a werewolf. "Well, he lost it, and she still has the scars."

Really. Let's go back to our list... actually, I don't need the list. FUCK YOU. FUCK YOU SO HARD. Domestic violence is not romantic, and I don't care how much you say she started it, you don't hit your girlfriend. EVER. If the other women in your tribe had the sense that God gave mayonnaise, wolf boy would be lucky to *only* go to jail. Wait-- there don't appear to be any other women in the tribe. *sigh*

And this movie is the one that made $140 million bucks in one weekend. Bigger than Dark Knight. Maybe it's just that I'm older and (hopefully) wiser than the characters and thus out of this movie's target demographic, or maybe I'm a humorless feminist, but knowing that zillions of girls are seeing this getting the idea that a seriously unhealthy relationship is somehow the equivalent of true love -- that is profoundly disturbing. Far scarier than a werewolf.



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edit on 11-24: I’ve heard from a few people that my little rant has gone viral. Neat! And hello Internet. Feel free to leave a comment if you like. But if you like this, please pass it on. Start a conversation about how abusive relationships aren’t ok. I know, I know, no one likes to talk about domestic violence. But you don’t have to be a bra-burning feminist to start asking questions about how “romance” is portrayed.

And if you think I’m nuts, that’s ok too. Feel free to let me know why stalking is cool. ;)


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edit on 11-30: i09?? Jezebel?! Jumpin' jeebus christ. If I'd known so many people would read this, I definitely would have polished up my rant a little. Maybe taken out the f-bombs. *g* This seems to have really hit a nerve on the inter-tubes, and it warms the cockles of my dusty black heart to see that so many people have used this blog as a way to start talking about young women and domestic violence.

For the n00bs, no, I'm not a Twilight super-fan. Obviously. But I'm not a hater either. If you love the movies, enjoy watching them. If you don't, enjoy laughing at them. But if you take anything away from this conversation, it's this: think critically before you wish for someone else's idea of what's romantic. Actually, think critically, period, especially when mass media is involved. It looks like a lot of you's have started this already-- rock on with yourselves.

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edit on 12-1: OMGWTF EW.com? Now that this thing seems to have infiltrated the internet, I've added a followup post over here. Mwah. -K :)

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yrcomplacency From: yrcomplacency Date: November 22nd, 2009 12:55 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)
and when wolf boy took his shirt off, I think 100 women ovulated all at once.

This line made me GUFFAW aloud. I love you.

But I must add - the target audience isn't old enough to ovulate. Their moms all did though.

Edited at 2009-11-22 12:57 pm (UTC)
nebris From: nebris Date: November 23rd, 2009 03:01 am (UTC) (lock coordinates)
this

related

~M~
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wishme From: wishme Date: November 22nd, 2009 02:05 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)
but knowing that zillions of girls are seeing this getting the idea that a seriously unhealthy relationship is somehow the equivalent of true love -- that is profoundly disturbing. Far scarier than a werewolf.

THIS is why I hate the series so much. I'm truly scared for these girls
From: (Anonymous) Date: December 9th, 2009 09:47 am (UTC) (lock coordinates)

SERIOUSLY

There really isnt anything wrong with the serious. People take this as abuse because they dont know how to actually like something like it or refuse to admit it. All it is is a tale of teenage love. PERIOD. so come on people its fiction so forget about. If you love it great. If you hate it okay, dont complain about it all you keep doing it bringing up something you dont like. Its as SIMPLE as that. END OF STATEMENT.
far_east_coast From: far_east_coast Date: November 22nd, 2009 03:36 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)
I fully concur with the point about suitable role modeling for youth. Unfortunately I see it reinforced in some many of the mass marketing hollywood tripe. That same tripe happens to be the main bulk of the American cinema that is exported.
From: (Anonymous) Date: December 1st, 2009 07:22 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)

Really?

Suitable role modeling in literature read by high school and middle school students...like Holden Caufield? Ethan Frome? Rhett Butler? Romeo? Are there actually ANY examples of young people modeling their behavior off of these characters from these hugely influential texts? Are there any examples of girls entering in to abusive relationships with boys because of the Twilight series? Give young women a little credit. There are a lot of elements in the books that have appeal and even meet needs in women, young and not-so-young, but putting Edward into an abuser box is not part of it.

I used to teach middle school and one thing we taught was context. Out of context you could call Edward an abuser, but in context he's self-sacrificial to a fault and his actions actually make sense because not only is Bella a magnet for trouble, he's not even human. If Edward were human and Bella were not in danger all of those behaviors that have been deemed potentially abusive would not exist. Given that vampires don't exist, and the readers are not in danger on a regular basis the behavior would be out of context and thus deemed unacceptable to the readers. Remember, the character of Bella is stubborn as hell, and if she doesn't like something she makes it known. She isn't swayed or influenced by her peers, she knows who she is and who she is not and she is not afraid of Edward, even if he is afraid of himself.

I actually interviewed Robert Pattinson and asked the question, "is Edward mentally 108-ish or is he mentally 17?" and his response was that Edward, as he understood it, stayed 17, in all ways, but that 17 of 108 years ago was more mature than the 17 of today, and that on top of it he had 90-something years of experience and knowledge, but he was still a 17-year-old. That changes things a little too.
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daarxxx From: daarxxx Date: November 22nd, 2009 04:08 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)

yep

tell it true. :)
forestcats From: forestcats Date: November 22nd, 2009 06:49 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)
Excellent original critique! This mindset in girls often starts quite early at Disneyland. Beauty & The Beast, the message is that only by your suffering and being kind to an asshat can the prince come out. It is all your fault he isn't a prince.

Cinderella, you have to meet expectations far above your own self to be acceptable even worthy of dancing with the prince. Suffering is a good thing.

Little Mermaid Ariel you have to completely change who you are because you aren't worthy. You have to throw away your life.

Snow White you are not responsible because someone evil is to blame. Only a fantasy character can save you. If it isn't Mr. Perfect who will overlook all YOUR flaws...

Even Jasmine the Arabian princess who seems so free spirited falls for flash.

j3nzie From: j3nzie Date: November 23rd, 2009 10:10 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)
I am sorry, as a Disney fan I have a different take on a couple of these:

Cinderella. She was a victim of Domestic abuse from her f'ed up family. They meet and fell in love (sort of .. I mean it was a first date and all) and he searched the country for her. It didn't matter to him at all that she was a "servant" (see above, abused child) - he loved her anyway. She was not meant to be a servant. She was from a good family, who was invited to the ball - she had every right to be there. All the women were chasing the hot prince. She just happened to be the one her fell for but she cleaned up nice ;)

Little Mermaid - She wanted to be human BEFORE she met the guy. That was just further motivation to do so, that and her dad kinda being a controlling dick. When she first sings "Part of your world" it has nothing to do with Eric, only about exploring and not feeling like she belonged in the world she was in. It was in the Reprise of that song when she included him. She made a choice to become human, a) because she had always been interested in the humans and b) because there was a hot guy involved. He didn't MAKE her choose anything. She made the choice herself. Nothing in that movie implied that she was not worthy of the Prince. She was also ALREADY a princess! AND he was totally falling for the mute version of her before he knew anything about her.

Beauty and the Beast - I am not really a fan of this picture and I pretty much agree. He was a dick to her .. it should not have been her responsibility to make him not a jerk. Those were his issues. It would be better if she was a) not held captive there b) he was never mean to her c) was just an ugly monster and she made the choice to love him despite his appearance .. for who he was, but who he was when she made that choice .. was a jerk .. so yeah f that.

Snow White - I am not getting where any of that is coming from. Again. Her Step mother was a controlling bitch. She was taken the woods to be murdered, dude spared her, she ran .. made her own little life with the dwarves .. who tried to protect her .. but she was a little naive and trusted like the scariest looking old lady ever. The real point of the movie is that if you are really pretty .. watch out cause your step-mother is totally going to kill you.

Jasmine was NOT impressed when Aladdin rode in on the big parade as Prince Ali .. it was not until her came up to her room on the flying carpet and put his hand out and said "Don't you trust me?" like her had when they first met in the market. He, as the fake prince was trying to get to know her and that was the only reason she agreed. Also prior to him she rejected ever other person presented to her by her father .. because she didn't want to be an object, she wanted to have something more .. which she found when she connected with Aladdin as the Prince. It was nothing to do with him being a "prince" and they got together even after he was exposed as not being a prince, because she liked him for who he was .. a street rat, free spirit that liked her for who she was .. a free spirited princess, but he liked her when he met her on the street the first time too before he knew who she was. She was already a princess. HE changed for her not the other way around.

There are sever issues on the side of Disney with the princesses .. but most of what you pointed out weren't actually the cases in these particular movies (save Beauty and the Beast)
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chowyunsmut From: chowyunsmut Date: November 22nd, 2009 07:25 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)
Couldn't agree more. Word and word and word.
angeldye From: angeldye Date: November 22nd, 2009 07:26 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)
don't make me smack you. ;)

oh my shit.. I can't wait until the 3rd movie.. you are going to lose it ;) you haven't read the books right? if you haven't.. you should, you know - for science!

but yeah.. everything you said is TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
jonelin From: jonelin Date: November 22nd, 2009 07:34 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)
but, but... there's no SEX and that's a GOOD message for our daughters, right? and being good a good submissive woman is what we want to teach them, right? /sarcasm

i refuse to give that franchise my money because mormons really REALLY bug me.
thefreak From: thefreak Date: November 22nd, 2009 10:07 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)
And when they do have sex, she is beaten and bruised and gets pregnant...a pregnancy that never makes you want to have babies.
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thefreak From: thefreak Date: November 22nd, 2009 10:08 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)
Let's not forget the first movie where her injuries from the fight are explained away as her...wait for it...falling down the stairs. They should have thrown a "walked into the door" line.
j3nzie From: j3nzie Date: November 23rd, 2009 09:42 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)
and that any future abose by pretty much anyone she dates will be explained away that way because she is apparently so vacant that she can barely walk.

Was there glass in the staircase? Because she had glass through her leg, I assume the doctor's removed it. She had a HUGE bite mark on her arm .. where the hell are these man eating stairs? They bandaged the area .. they had to had SEEN it ..

yeah .. she fell down stairs.

Let's just set that up for future reference, she is an idiot and now her random abuse will go on without question or concern from anyone who loves her (her family)
bellacrow From: bellacrow Date: November 23rd, 2009 02:22 am (UTC) (lock coordinates)
walkyrja sent me this way

What about the obsessive scary way Edward watches her when she sleeps. Can this girl never get a moment to herself?

*shudder* this whole franchise has always bothered me and you've helped explain why.

thanks!
kar3ning From: kar3ning Date: November 23rd, 2009 09:11 am (UTC) (lock coordinates)
Howdy! I'd kind of pegged Edward for a stalker in the first movie, especially after he just pops up in her bedroom to watch her sleep. Any other woman would be making some phone calls to Downtown Forks Martial Arts the next morning. Yuck.
britgeekgrrl From: britgeekgrrl Date: November 23rd, 2009 03:01 am (UTC) (lock coordinates)
Thank you for writing this. You've neatly summarized all of the things that have been niggling at me about the Twilight series but, not having seen the movies/read the books, I couldn't adequately define it all.

Mind if I link to this post?
kar3ning From: kar3ning Date: November 23rd, 2009 08:49 am (UTC) (lock coordinates)
Link away. :) Heh.. this seems to have touched a nerve.
(Deleted comment)
kar3ning From: kar3ning Date: November 23rd, 2009 08:44 am (UTC) (lock coordinates)
Holy moly, I think I may have to order one of those. :D
stephonavich From: stephonavich Date: November 23rd, 2009 06:52 am (UTC) (lock coordinates)
I'd like to say, if I may, that I am totally and completely on board with you. But, perhaps once these twitards are smacked around a little they might grow a brain and realize - hey this isn't fun. Maybe this is not true love.

I don't identify with any women or men that doesn't have a life and friends of their own. However, I think during the tween years you officially lose your brain and then find it laying in a drain system somewhere when you're over twenty.

I couldn't get past the bad writing from the book. I'm certainly not going to hold back from laughing at how bad the movie is and what it represents either. Good for you for laughing! I'm right there with ya!
j3nzie From: j3nzie Date: November 24th, 2009 09:34 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)
maybe it is also about not letting young men think that this behaviour is ok either.

The problem is two fold. Women that believe it is ok to love men who behave this way. Men who believe it is ok to behave this way.

It is high time that men are held accountable when they are pricks to people they are supposed to care about.

Yes the women should know better and leave .. but seriously parents need to raise their young boys into men that treat women with respect. "Boys will be Boys" is BS - cause in my world "girls will be girls" and knee those boys in the nuts
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nemogbr From: nemogbr Date: November 23rd, 2009 10:03 am (UTC) (lock coordinates)
Never read the series or seen the films.

This list does remind me of what happened with Buffy the Vampire Slayer and he relationship with SPike the Vampire.

It was bad enough when she was dating the first Vampire, Angel. Over 200 years old and going for a teenage girl?
If she was any younger it would have been paedophilia.
kagejim From: kagejim Date: November 23rd, 2009 08:34 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)
A teenage girl that can drive a telephone poll through your chest, granted.
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nemogbr From: nemogbr Date: November 23rd, 2009 10:19 am (UTC) (lock coordinates)

Five terrible male role models.

(Deleted comment)
merseine From: merseine Date: November 24th, 2009 03:04 am (UTC) (lock coordinates)
I was directed here from another friend's post - and DAMN but you hit the nail on the head.

THANK YOU for such a concise and perfectly-spelled-out list. I have reposted it on Facebook and have sent it to a HS teacher friend of mine. We need to get the word out that Abusive Relationships are Not OK.

thank you!
currentlee From: currentlee Date: November 24th, 2009 06:06 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)
merseine passed it along to me, and i'd like to reference your post in a blogging about the subject for the young adult library services association. do you object to having this linked to?
alex_victory From: alex_victory Date: November 24th, 2009 07:11 am (UTC) (lock coordinates)
Someone posted this link in a chat channel on my WoW server. I was like, "Hey how do you know Kar3n?" He didn't, he'd gotten the link from a friend.

You are now INTERNET FAMOUS. I mean, if you weren't before.
clynne From: clynne Date: November 25th, 2009 05:47 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)
Yeah, someone posted this on a private forum I read and I was like "whoa, how's he know K3?"
stormshaman From: stormshaman Date: November 24th, 2009 04:07 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)
Thank you so much for writing this. Seriously.
niamhaevalnimue From: niamhaevalnimue Date: November 24th, 2009 11:28 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)
The only good thing to come out of this series would be if someone actually had the conversation of how this is an abusive relationship with teens. I don't see that happening any time soon. I'm talking Linda Elerbee-style prime time special or something not after-school special cheesy.

But I'm a YA librarian and was asked to use "Twilight" for a book club book last December. Almost all the girls that attended said that while they felt at times Edward was romantic, he was way too controlling and they wouldn't want to date him. (As a point of reference the other girls didn't say whether or not they had an opinion.)

Take that how you will. At least some girls are smart enough/getting the message that the series doesn't depict a normal relationship (even if it is billed as fantasy).

ps. found your post via the YALSA blog.
niamhaevalnimue From: niamhaevalnimue Date: November 24th, 2009 11:29 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)
And I should also say that this is a wonderful post and I hope many people read it and THINK about what they're watching/reading.
gaeanangel From: gaeanangel Date: November 25th, 2009 12:46 am (UTC) (lock coordinates)
Thank you for writing this. (I came across it via a friend's Facebook post, and have, in turn, posted it to my own Facebook.)

Like britgeekgrrl, I've never read the series or seen the movies, but this nicely summarizes everything I've heard that made me uncomfortable.
gaeanangel From: gaeanangel Date: November 25th, 2009 12:48 am (UTC) (lock coordinates)
And it seems that two of my friends have posted it to their own FB pages, with the instructions to pass it on. Huzzah!
saint_of_me From: saint_of_me Date: November 25th, 2009 04:06 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)
E-mailed this to my aunt. (Cleaned up the language.) Great, now I'm worried about my teenage cousins who love Twilight. I've always said that vampires are the tentacle monsters of the Western world. I wonder if there's some equivalent rant for hentai? Of if there doesn't have to be, since vampires are like tentacle monsters? This is starting to sound like one hand clapping. Thanks!
kar3ning From: kar3ning Date: November 28th, 2009 02:40 am (UTC) (lock coordinates)
Ha! If I'd known how many people would read this, I would have polished up the language, ha ha. Thanks for reading and passing it along anyway. :)
bakho From: bakho Date: November 25th, 2009 05:22 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)
Thanks for an awesome post which summarized how wrong and on how many levels those books/movies suck.

Oh, and you became quite popular on Google Reader! :P
From: (Anonymous) Date: November 30th, 2009 04:31 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)

Breathe, people

Wow... a whole anti-twilight subculture analyzing disney and crucifying fictional stories. I'm a little surprised at how serious this is all becoming - reminds me of the Christians crucifying Harry Potter as the Occult :)

I agree with the accurate things -- the whole Edward-is-a-stalker thing and all that. But you people are going a little nuts here. If you are going to criticize, and there is a lot to criticize, try to be accurate. Setting up a straw man and knocking it down is a huge turn off for any topic in my book.

(keep in mind, I'm speaking from the books, not the movies). Edward doesn't hurt Bella. Yes, he has to control the whole desiring-her-blood thing, but that's the fictional vampire part of the story - he never does what happens in real abusive relationships - where the one party is so frustrated (often without reason) by something the other party does that they lose it and beat the shit out of them or threaten them or such. His behavior does not mirror real abusive relationships at all.

The whole criticism with the "fell through a window" excuse was bogus - Edward did NOT cause those injuries - it was an evil vampire who chased her down. You guys write it as if he lost it, beat the shit out of her and then passed it off as "fell through a window".

Is this a healthy role-model type story young girls should hang their hopes on? No, but neither is prince charming or any other love story I've ever read. Hello, stories are not real. I've not read any accurate ones that present good, healthy, AND realistic examples of relationships. If they made a story like that, it would probably be boring.

Here's an idea... TALK to your kids, be parents, don't expect authors to write the messages for you. Don't expect filmmakers to consider your child's moral health when making movies. If you disagree with a story, don't let your kids read the books or watch the movie. If you think there are issues - talk to your kids about it. Be involved.

If you worry about where society is going, do your part to support family-friendly alternatives and don't give money to the things you disagree with. Even write stuff like this to spread the word and make people think. But for goodness sake, at least make it accurate.

Why not give your child the tools to scrutinize anything they hear and read - fiction or non-fiction, movies, books, or speeches. Now THAT would be a great thing for society...
Re: Breathe, people - (Anonymous) - Expand
From: (Anonymous) Date: November 25th, 2009 05:43 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)

Excellent!

Thanks for an awesome post; came here through a link from the YALSA blog which was linked by a friend of mine on Facebook. I have reposted both the YALSA link and the link to this post on my Facebook Wall. Your post is a concise explication of why these books are so scary from a social standpoint.

Another Live Journal item about the books that I saw awhile back was this:
http://stoney321.livejournal.com/317176.html

The post's author is very funny and lays out the plots with a good amount of snark for folks who haven't read the books; I have passed the link to it along to others who don't want to read them but want to know the general plotlines. The post's author is ex-Mormon, so that's an interesting perspective, too. She said the ways that Stephenie Meyers describes Edward is SO reminiscent of how Joseph Smith (creator of the LDS church) was/is described by the church -- it really creeped her (the post author) out.
kar3ning From: kar3ning Date: November 28th, 2009 02:35 am (UTC) (lock coordinates)

Re: Excellent!

Thanks for the link.. that's rather enlightening (and funny) to read it from the Mormon perspective. Just when you thought Twilight couldn't get any creepier, it does. :P
From: (Anonymous) Date: November 26th, 2009 01:59 am (UTC) (lock coordinates)
i'm fresh out of an abusive relationship and boy howdy twilight pisses me off. thank you for sharing your rant <3
kar3ning From: kar3ning Date: November 28th, 2009 02:39 am (UTC) (lock coordinates)
Thanks for reading.. and good on you for getting up the guts to leave. :)
it's too bad - (Anonymous) - Expand
From: (Anonymous) Date: November 26th, 2009 06:33 am (UTC) (lock coordinates)

ON THE OTHER HAND

I have read through your comments and I do not see ONE not ONE at all that has the flip side of this post...
LETS JUST START WITH THE FACT THAT THIS IS FICTIONAL!!!! HELLO EVERY ONE THERE IS NO VAMPIRES AND THERE ARE NO WAREWOLVES.
If we are gonna break this down and look at allt he bad parts of this book series and movie series..lets look at reality to....again VAMPIRES AND WAREWOLVES ARE NOT REAL...THERE ARE NO MONSTERS UNDER THE BED OR IN THE CLOSET EITHER.

I have been in an abusive relation ship as well and I am sorry but I do not agree with you all... Yes there are some things I may not agree with ...like the sneaking into the bed room... but hey what is a vampire to do when he does not sleep. OH AND I DID NOT SEE BELLA TELLING HIM TO STOP. If she was scared or creeped out AHMM DO WE ALL KNOW THE WORDS NO???

SO here we are with the flip side or on the other hand witch ever way you want to look at it.

There are ALOT WORSE THINGS OUR KIDS COULD BE READING OR WATCHING...HELLO HAVE YOU SEEN SOME OF THE MOVIES OUT THERE...RAPE, MURDER, BEATING...DRUGS DRINKING..I have seen these all in the movies...

If we are going to start ranting about movies..lets all get together and rant about say the SAW series...realy what good are those movies.??? they just teach people how to torture and kill just for the fun of it.

Please let me say again if you did not see it previously...VAMPIRES AND WAREWOLVES ARE NOT REAL..NOW lets all move on and get a LIFE
stormshaman From: stormshaman Date: November 26th, 2009 03:32 pm (UTC) (lock coordinates)

Re: ON THE OTHER HAND

So because it's fiction, that makes it all OK?

What drugs are you taking, and may I have some?
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Re: ON THE OTHER HAND - (Anonymous) - Expand
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